Scholarship and Warmth: An Interview with Bruce Waltke

Dr. Bruce Waltke is a preeminent Old Testament scholar. His teaching career has earned him a reputation of being a master teacher with a pastoral heart. Dr. Waltke has also pastored several churches, lectured at many evangelical seminaries in North America and has spoken at numerous Bible conferences.

I’ve been impressed by Dr. Waltke’s scholarship, as well as his pastoral warmth. I’m grateful to Dr. Waltke for agreeing to answer some of my questions.

As Professor of Old Testament, what brings you the greatest joy? Is it studying, writing, teaching, or something else?

I wish I could say that I find my greatest joy in my students.  Though I do delight in them and in their ministries, I find my greatest joys in writing and publishing and in teaching. I used to get the most joy out of teaching and preaching, but as I got older I realized more and more how transitory verbal ministries are. As I got older I came to value teaching more and more for  what it built into the lives of my students and its multiplication and its continuation in their ministries. That reward, however, is less direct and seemingly more restricted  than that of writing, for writings touch more lives for more time than students in a classroom. But writings, like all things, will pass away, as publishers undoubtedly will cease to publish my dated works. But unlike Qoheleth I know there will always be a residue of eternal profit, for all ministry participates in the eternal kingdom of God.

Your exegetical work seems to me to combine scholarship and worship, which aren't found together as often as one might wish. How have you been able to maintain both together?

Others note an alleged combination of scholarship and worship. It must be relative, for I am unconscious of it.  My scholarship always seems to be inadequate because knowledge is always imperfect--there is always another book to read on a subject or is being written on it.  As for worship,  though I do not know the full depths of my depravity, I know it well enough to know that my motives are always tarnished by self-interest, not by worship. My spiritual flaw is a carnal perfectionism. I believe God is taking that flaw and sanctifying it by his Spirit in me.  Quintillius said:  “Ambition is a vice but it can be the mother of virtue.”  To become a vrtue must be the work of God's grace.  I have nothing of which to boast. This process of holiness is true of all healthy Christians, isn't it?

Pastors often feel pushed away from theology to be more "practical." What advice would you give to a pastor who aspires to be a pastor and scholar?

I cannot distinguish between theology and practical theology.  If my theology does not change my life, it is not good theology, but an idol. I hope every pastor who stands behind the sacred lectern is a scholar.  By that I mean, I hope the teacher of God's Word will teach it as responsibly as possible within the time available.  Very few are so gifted they can be both an academic in a university or seminary and a pastor. There is by the restraint of time and being human a less than perfect scholarship and of pastoring. What is needed is both humility, a recognition of our limitations, and a commitment to give God the best of what he has given to us. We need to keep our priorities straight, lest we make Success our god. It's hard not to envy those who worship Success and receive worldly rewards.

Knowledge is both a virtue and a vice.  It is necessary and certainly better than ignorance.  Paul frequently says he doesn't want us to be ignorant.  On the other hand, it is a vice: it always puffs up and is imperfect.  By God's grace I overcome its endemic tendency to pride the pure virtue of love and its imperfection by the pure virtues of faith and hope.

It's a joy to see the warmth between you and your friend Haddon Robinson. It's a good example of friendship maintained through years of life and ministry. How have friendships like this sustained you?

Photo courtesy of Chris Brauns

Haddon is so uniquely gifted that I feel unworthy of his friendship.  His warm friendship toward our family  is a mark of his truly godly character. His brilliant conversation always refreshes me.  Bonnie's love is peerless. Elaine and I treasure their friendship.  The sustenance of their friendship brings delight, psychic joy that cannot be fully verbalized. When the four of us are together we  seem to feed on each others thoughts, commitments and basic disposition toward God and others, though Elaine is now suffering dementia. Haddon or Bonnie never interpret us negatively; they truly believe and hope all things;  I do not think they ever think of enduring us.

How can we pray for you?

I have taken a leave of absence from teaching at Knox, to test how I can best serve God without a contract to teach. Pray that I will finish well and have the wisdom to prioritize my time well in this new context. 

Ministry in a Post-Christendom Context: An Interview with Barry Parker

Barry Parker serves as rector of St. Paul's Bloor Street in downtown Toronto. He's a capable preacher and leader, and a careful thinker. On top of that, he's a really fun guy to be around.

Over the past few years I've had the privilege of getting to know Barry. I always walk away from our meetings sharpened and grateful for our time together.

Barry has been kind enough to answer some questions about ministry in a post-Christendom context.

The Church is no longer a significant cultural influence. This is often seen as bad news, but is there a bright side to this?

If the Church is busy seeking to influence culture as an end unto itself, it gets distracted from the essential focus of its existence—obedience to the call of Jesus Christ and following Him. Following Jesus (versus following culture) issues in both individual (the believer) and the community (the Body of Christ) transformation. Perhaps there will be collateral impact on the culture, a good thing. I do not believe it is the primary objective of discipleship formation. Without worrying about cultural or societal affirmation, which is a historic cornerstone of Christendom, then the Church doesn’t have to conform to external, secular and ideological agenda’s. It allows the Church to be the Church—a good thing.

What do we need to unlearn in a post-Christendom context?

• Our self-focus and self-regulating engagement with the world. 
• Our innate love (hence very difficult to see, let alone part with) of power, preferment and entitlement. 
• Our myopic worldview that the culture is waiting with bated breath to be “Christian".

What new skills do we need to learn?

• A radical love of the other, no matter who or what the other is.
• Learning to listen carefully and wisely to others all the while letting go what we once gave us meaning, stability and security; i.e. buildings, polity, tribalism, etc
• A radical humility that is grounded in the Saviour of the World because we are not the saviour of anything.

How is reaching the un-churched (people with no church background) different from reaching the de-churched (people with some church memory)?

The closed de-churched, usually those burned by an experience in churchland, need a lot of time and a genuine apology from Christians and the Church. However, I do not think the un-churched and open de-churched require different approaches as both groups, all groups at minimum, need to experience the Gospel and encounter Jesus. Both groups, as loosely defined and boundary-less as they are—operate out of stereotypes of faith, Jesus, the Church and Christians. Both need listening and humble witness that is grounded in a genuine love for them and not for our agenda.

• listening without advice, 
• community without conformity, 
• hospitality that is relational, not positional, 
• service without expectation or exception 
• learning opportunities that encourage active questioning and identity formation. 

How can we pray for you in your role as Rector of St. Paul's?

That I stay close to Jesus in obedience and that we as a particular faith community pay attention to all that is mentioned above.

Urban Church Planting: An Interview with Mark Reynolds

Mark Reynolds is Vice President of Redeemer City to City, an organization that aims to help leaders build gospel movements in cities. I love what City to City is doing, and I've found Mark to be a wealth of wisdom on why urban church planting is important, and how we can plant effectively in the key urban centers of the world.

I'm grateful that Mark took the time to answer some of my questions.

Your role allows you to see what God is doing in cities all around the world. What excites you?

Primarily in the West I'm seeing a convergence of ministry innovation and learning in the context of urban church planting. You have this overlap of cities as an idea, and then church planting. These are potent tools for research and development for the church. This creates a laboratory of learning and ministry innovation. Over time this will be extremely helpful to the city churches and others that are outside of the cities as well.

I’m also seeing a growing awareness of the need and opportunity in cities for church planters. There’s a growing awareness, but we’re still lagging behind in the competencies and proficiencies to do it well.

The story is still unfolding, but there are three things that I am excited about:

• First, the church in the West is thinking through its relationship with the culture. It’s bringing more explicitly its understanding of its role in the culture as a particular church or collection of churches instead of just letting the culture determine that or just assuming that there's one model. They’re not just acquiescing to the culture or taking a militant posture towards the culture but asking, “How are we as a church to relate to culture in this particular time in history, with our gifts and our contributions?” Before it was either assumed for us, or it was just nakedly brought in without us thinking it through. I’m excited that churches are thinking this through.
• Second, there’s a simultaneous awareness of the gospel being both proclaimed and embodied in deed. The church is committed to preaching the gospel, calling people to the new birth. We’re also realizing there are great needs in the city. Churches need, for the love of neighbor and for Christ’s sake, to serve those that have need.
• The third thing I am excited about is still evolving. The church is asking what evangelism and apologetics looks like in this particular time in these urban centers. How does the church do persuasion? How do we address the base line narratives that urban dwellers are asking or living in and not just assuming that we know? The church is entering into those stories, asking what people are thinking, and considering how they present the gospel to those people God has called them to reach.

We are still learning from them because evangelism can be a challenge in the cities. I think that the church that isn't in the city should be attracted to learning from these urban churches, because that's where  a lot of innovation is taking place. Cities as an idea are already the leading edge of forming culture. They are creating the new norms. How is the church responding to the new norms? It's very important. We want to be learning from them as well as helping them flourish.

What concerns you?

Well maybe lets start with the macro level.

Many urbanologists are telling us that five million people each month are moving into cities. This is taking place through domestic and international migration. It's a staggering number of people.  Over two months that's ten million people - a significant city every two months being added to the globe as it were. God is moving the human community into cities. Even to keep pace with that urban growth trend we would need to create 500 new congregations every month. Thats only assuming one church for every 10,000.  Missiologists tell us that we need at least one vibrant church for every 1,000 people, so just to keep pace at a very unreached level we would need to be planting 500 churches a month in the cities. Really, to reach those cities, we need to do 10 times that.

The need is overwhelming, and the invitation to the global church to awaken to this need should be there. It should keep us seeking the Lord of the harvest to raise up laborers to reach people in cities. 

Within the West, I think that we are not keeping up with the contextualization requirements.  By that I mean, it’s too easy to import a model of ministry that has shaped us. We are all creatures of habit. We are all shaped by different things, but the imposition of a church model that we love or we haven't properly assessed just doesn’t make sense. We need to be weened off a certain imperialism, just assuming that we know what cities need without listening and learning.

Then maybe the other thing that I am concerned about is that it’s a challenging assignment. What is attracting churches and leaders to these cities? Is it with a redemptive heart? Or is it that it’s a nice place to live and raise a family? There can be a lot of idolatry and hubris built around that as we kind of think about going into mission in the cities, but hopefully we’ve thought it through.

We haven't really seen church planting by multiplication in North America. It seems to be mostly incremental. Do you see this changing?

I would love for it to change. I see examples of some churches that are multiplying, but I don't see it happening at a constant place or in many locations or many denominations.

I think we have embraced that ideology as a way of giving us an identity and vision, but it actually isn't happening as much as it should. The invitation saying “Let's be a church that multiplies, let’s be a network that's growing exponentially” is desirable, but we still have a lot of churches that need to be planted. We need to ask particular churches, “What is our unique calling within this church multiplication world and how can we as a particular church be generative in the way that God has made us?”

We can be generative by partnering with other churches to plant churches.

We might be a church that raises up a lot of leaders and sends them out but doesn’t exactly create what we might call daughter churches. Instead of saying, “Our church isn't multiplying,” we need to ask ourselves, “How can we be generative, how can we expand the body of Christ though the the unique gifts and abilities we have?”

There are reasons why some churches struggle to be multiplying churches. I'm recognizing some unique calling they may have, and I’m not simply saying, “Because you didn't multiply within 3 years you are never going to do so.” I want to say, “There might be other things you can do to participate in growing the body of Christ in your city or your community.”

What practical steps can churches in a city take to work towards a gospel movement in that city?

We know that churches that are multiplying need to be at the core of the gospel movement in a particular city.

We would love to see gospel movements happening in places and cities. That's one of the reasons why Redeemer City to City exists as an organization.

As for the particular question of how can churches participate in that, we can again ask, “What is our particular contribution in a gospel movement in a city?” The needs are great and we can almost be overwhelmed by the scope of the mission and the scope of the need. I want to see a gospel movement happen in this city where there is Shalom and there's flourishing of the city, and people are coming to faith. What is the unique way that God has designed our church. How can we steward that? These are the fundamental questions the church could ask itself.

When we have theological or geographic affinity with other churches, we could do a few things together rather than operating our churches as silos. The need is great, and a gospel movement assumes that churches are beginning to work together.

As we study the history of revival we see the unique ways God brings about a movement or brings about revival.  It's anteceded and sustained by corporate prevailing Kingdom-centered prayer. Any way that churches and leaders can come together to pray for he whole city, not just their own church and its needs, will be a powerful testament.  If we want to see a gospel movement happening, it has to be preceded by this Kingdom-centered corporate prevailing prayer.

There are evidences of stages that some cities are moving across over a period of time. It probably takes longer than we might have realized or hoped for. But yes, I see new churches being birthed and churches coming together for missions, and that is exciting.

How can we pray for you in your role at Redeemer City to City?

We want to see the city become a cause that the church awakens to, just as the church has thought about poverty or any kind of challenge or struggle in our world. We want the church to be awakened to the city as a cause of mission as never before. So we are thinking of ways of doing that, but we want lots of partnerships and people joining us. We want to be sound with humility and confidence that cities are a cause we need to champion as the church.

The second would be that we find both long term sustainable and fruitful ministry in cities. I think about the church planting families, church planting couples, all that we relate to. I am always praying for them to be able to have long term fruitful ministry in cities - any church leader, any pastor, and any church planter.

I was recently reading a book by Paul Trip called Dangerous Calling which outlined with great skill, the unique challenges of that calling that intensify in pastoral ministry When and then when you come into urban ministry it intensifies even more.

So be praying for us, that God would allow us to have fruitful long term ministry and that we would avoid some of the challenges that are in that dangerous calling and actually thrive and see the body of Christ flourish in that city. So that's how you can be praying for us, for me and others.

Thanks, Mark.

The Ongoing Legacy of Dietrich Bonhoeffer

Bryan Galloway is Senior Pastor at Harvey Oaks Baptist Church in Omaha, Nebraska. Bryan graduated from Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary in May 2009 with a Doctor of Ministry. His thesis-project was on the difference that Dietrich Bonhoeffer makes in twenty-first century preaching.

I'm grateful that Bryan was willing to answer some questions about Bonhoeffer and his ongoing legacy.

How did you get interested in Dietrich Bonhoeffer?

I became interested with Dietrich Bonhoeffer when I was a college student at Bethel College in St. Paul, MN. Dr. Al Glenn introduced me to Life Together and The Cost of Discipleship. I was fascinated by Bonhoeffer’s blunt approach to discipleship and fellowship; and by his story of a pastor who stood up to Hitler and Nazi polices.

What does Bonhoeffer have to teach us as preachers?

My D.Min. thesis dealt with the impact of Bonhoeffer on 21st preachers. There are six reasons why Bonhoeffer can impact preachers today:

1. Scripture meditation;
2. A devotion to Christian fellowship;
3. An understanding of “Costly Grace”;
4. Standing against evil in society;
5. Serving Jesus even in the severest of trials;
6. The grace of living well and dying well.

There are links on BonhoefferBlog where each of these six reasons are expanded on.

Everyone seems to claim Bonhoeffer as part of their own camp. Why do you think this is so?

It is amazing that Bonhoeffer has been by embraced by evangelical, mainline, Catholic and liberal Christians. I believe his story (opposition to Hitler; martyred for Jesus) has a broad appeal. How can you not be attracted to a Christian who was willing to take bold opposition to a monster like Hitler? He even posed as a double agent in order to eliminate Hitler. He was also willing to die in doing so.

Since Bonhoeffer was a Lutheran, he naturally appeals to that camp. He appeals to many camps because of his devotion to Christ and his commitment to the authority of the Word of God.

One theory to why liberals embrace Bonhoeffer is because they are ashamed how liberals in 1930’s Germany embraced Hitler. Eric Metaxas, of course, was accused by Clifford Green of hijacking Bonhoeffer to the evangelical camp. However, Bonhoeffer did resemble an evangelical because he affirmed the authority of the Word of God, the priority of prayer, the importance of fellowship; the importance of preaching and the power of the Holy Spirit working in our lives.

How have people reacted to your work?

Since the introduction of my blog on Bonhoeffer back in February of 2008, I believe people have reacted positively. I get excited when people who know nothing or little of Bonhoeffer get excited for the first time. The legacy of Bonhoeffer seems to be growing year by year.

What resources would you suggest for those who want to learn more about Bonhoeffer?

Anyone who is interested in Bonhoeffer should read three of his works:

1. Life Together;
2. The Cost of Discipleship;
3. Letters and Papers from Prison.

Also, there are excellent biographies of Bonhoeffer…

1. Ferdinand Schlingensiepen: Dietrich Bonhoeffer, 1906-1945, Martyr, Thinker, Man of Resistance (an excellent bio)
2. Eric Metaxas: Bonhoeffer: Pastor, Martyr, Prophet, Spy (a great bio but he has been criticized on the certainty of some details)
3. Eberhard Bethge: Dietrich Bonhoeffer, A Biography (This book is over 800 pages and considered the biography of Bonhoeffer)
4. Mary Bosanquet: The Life and Death of Dietrich Bonhoeffer (This book I thoroughly enjoyed).

Thanks, Bryan!

Find out more at BonhoefferBlog.

Redeem the Commute: An Interview with Ryan Sim

Early last year, Ryan Sim put his house in Toronto for sale and moved an hour east to Ajax to start a new church, Redeemer Church. I'm excited to ask Ryan about his church planting efforts in this short interview.

Ajax is a commuter town. How does that shaping your approach in planting Redeemer Ajax?

We are committed to planting a church focused on making new disciples, by understanding and serving the needs of people with no prior experience knowing or following Jesus.  As I learned about Ajax, and prayed to discern the needs of people here, I saw how over 80% of working-age adults in Ajax commute to work in Toronto and the surrounding suburbs.  I realized how the commuting lifestyle can be so consuming, through surveys, interviews, observations and a demographic study.  Train and bus schedules, traffic, daycare hours and bedtimes shape commuters’ schedules and priorities, especially if they have young children.  It’s a stressful way of life that takes a toll on marriages, parenting, finances and more.  People say their priorities are out of order, especially their time, relationships and finances but they haven’t managed to sort them out on their own.

For commuters who happen to be followers of Jesus, those priorities are being shaped by submission to Jesus as Lord.  Church membership, services, courses, small groups, spiritual disciplines and more are all ways that Christians are nurtured and grow in faith.  But for those who are not followers of Jesus, attending a first church service, marriage, parenting or Christian Basics course, or even a special event means shuffling priorities, schedules and more.  Some do this at the invitation of a friend or loved one, but a growing majority simply never learn about Jesus, or get the help they need from a community of Christians, in one of these venues.  I heard this week that 1 in 3 Canadians has never attended a religious service of any kind.

With all this in mind, we wanted to make sure that Sunday services, courses and special events were not the only venues for discipleship, but that people could be introduced to Jesus on their commute.  It’s one of the few moments of quiet during the day, and something people say is a waste they’d love to “redeem”.  So we are about to launch Redeem the Commute, a mobile app for commuters that offers good news and help, and we trust, will introduce them to the Redeemer himself.

I've heard of churches using mobile apps before, but this is the first time I've seen a church use an app as a major part of its strategy. How will that work?

At launch, commuters will find a marriage course and two parenting courses with gentle reference to being shaped by Christian belief and values, as well as a Christianity 101 course where I introduce the Christian faith in more depth.  Each course takes less than 10 minutes a day, in audio or video formats, with a discussion question and lots of encouragement to invite spouses, friends and colleagues to follow the same content.   Our dream is that a network of small groups will form in trains, buses, carpools, neighbourhoods and workplaces, of people engaging with these courses, and then with our daily challenges, fresh, rhythmic daily content where we explore and applies scripture to daily life.

Our vision is that we’ll have a number of these groups meeting and learning to follow Jesus, with their leaders in a coaching network.  After a year, we’ll gather all these groups together for the first of many large group celebrations and become known as Redeemer Church.

Many churches use mobile apps to deliver their sermons, worship services and educational materials to members and those they influence.  Redeem the Commute is uniquely focused on a specific group of those outside the church, and delivers content customized to their needs, not those of a worshipping community already following Jesus.  It begins by simply serving their need for help with relationships, while offering immediate opportunities to form community and go deeper.

What has been the hardest part of planting so far?

Waiting!  God is teaching us patience.  It took much longer for my family to find a house and move to Ajax, so we haven’t been on the ground building relationships or a team as long as we’d hoped.

As of today, we are fully ready to launch Redeem the Commute, but have been waiting two months for Apple to approve the iOS app.  The content is ready, our advertising is ready, I’m ready, even the Android app is ready, but our iPhone/iPad app is just waiting for approval.  The approval process is opaque and mysterious, and there’s nothing I can do but wait and work on future content.  Apple represents such a big part of the mobile market that we’re not going to launch until it’s approved.  And so, we wait!

What has been the most joyful part of planting so far?

The most joyful part of planting has come from identifying God’s care, even in the midst of adversity.  God has sent us good news, people, gifts and more to remind us that we are here, and planting a church in such an unusual way because he has a plan.

It can be discouraging to plant a church in neighbourhoods that are empty all day, and busy all evening and weekend.  All our usual methods of starting services, events, courses and even serving needs just do not seem to fit this community, and would probably only attract Christians.  But it is in those moments of discouragement that God reminds me that our approach is tailored for those kinds of people, and it was his idea, not mine.  I never imagined we’d be using a mobile app like this, but it is the fruit of good prayer, research and discernment, and I trust that God is behind it all.

How can we pray for you?

Pray that in this time of waiting, God will introduce us to people of peace in this community.  Pray for Redeem the Commute, that it will be discovered, installed, and used more than once by those who need it, and that we’ll see a Christian community develop.  Pray for me, as I learn to pastor in that context, and for my family, as we adapt to a new community, and the very same stressful commuting lifestyle that our neighbours know so well.

Find out more about Ryan at these links:

• www.redeemthecommute.com

• www.redeemerajax.ca

• www.ryanbrsim.com